Why do we try?

I would just like to vocalize some ideas upon the fact that the band just doesn't seem to be the Allegany Band anymore. It makes one wonder why exactly is that. Are we not playing enough? Are there not enough rehersals? Are there too many? Is the music too hard/too easy? Is the drill to difficult to learn and master? Are we not spending enough time doing fundamentals? Then I finally realized something it seems we may be lacking: Motivation. Why exactly are we the Allegany Band? Why do we attempt to always be first? Why do we work our butts off, only to hit a certain stopping point, and then give up? Why do we try, yet never get where we want to be? Why does this seem to be happening again this year? Just one last question: Why do we try?

Dan,

Not sure where you post is coming from... but a couple of thoughts from my perspective

1. Our goal is not to come in first. Our goal is to max our potential. Many times in the past (including last year) that has resulted in our first place accolades..but again, that is not in our control, only our excellence.

2. I am much more qualified to answer your question "who is the Allegany Band?" based on my 14 years with the group than anyone in it....and the group this year is the same type of talented, dedicated students that I have seen through the years...I am very happy with the work ethic and attitude of the group.

3. Not sure where you are coming from in what's happening this year...the show is progressing well IMO. We are getting ready to start learning the closer...

4. I hope we try because of the pride in the group and in ourselves. Excellence is its own reward...trust me..you will take it and the memory with you the rest of your life long after placements are forgotten.

Cheers to all!!

Mr. J

P.S. FWIW, I love the battery this year

You ask a lot of questions that have really have no definite answer. However, your final question is a dangerous one. You make it sound as though there is no point in trying anymore, which is absolutely the worst thing for me to hear/read. There is no one, flawless way to become champions. Different bands have different formulas in becoming great. For years upon years, this organization has worked and rehearsed in a certain way and for most of those years, it has resulted in a satisfying season.

I guess the problem I'm having here is trying to understand a few things about your post:
1.) What happened to you or what have you noticed that has got you questioning the point of hard work?
2.) What answer are you searching for with all of your questions?
3.) Why are you trying to judge this season already?

Look folks, sure we haven't had perfect rehearsals. But we are just getting started. In the end, the band will be as good as the choices you all make along the way. The decision between holding your horn properly or giving up will affect the band's result in November. The decision between talking and not talking during a rehearsal will affect the band's outcome. So, even though no one should be worried about November right now, the decisions you make at every rehearsal will determine how great we are.

Never question the value of hard work. Decide who you want to be this season, translate those decisions onto the field, and you WILL be there. We are the Allegany Band and always will be...always hard-working and always proud.

Director wrote:

P.S. FWIW, I love the battery this year

Hey, well thank you very much. And by what i mean through this is that it seems that there has been less respect and more people just not caring about how well we do and the program or anything. I more or less wanted to know what it is that motivates people to do good and go the extra mile. This may be a pessimistic view, and maybe we will actually do really good this year. I just really hope so.

Daniel: You try because people like me tried 30 years ago when we were in the Allegany Band (PS--today's band members are able to do things we never dreamed of!). You try because people like Mr. White, Steve Marshall, Reid Smith, Dan Kimble, the Schroeders, the Snyders, the Nilands, the Websters, the Kellermeyers, the Dowdells, the Simpsons and hundreds more like them--students and parents--have worked so hard before you to perform in and build the Allegany Band. You try because people like Mr. Jackson and the rest of the staff are wonderful, thoughtful, creative people who year in and year out create something beautiful and unique for students to aspire to. You try because you are rarely asked to work as hard in school as you are asked to work in band--and that's a good character-building life lesson. You try because you have a chance to experience transcendent moments. You try because creating something cohesive and sometimes fantastic from tens of thousands of little individual movements and sounds is an amazing experience. My son Matt who graduated in 2004 always said that the most important thing for him was not the winning--it was the performing.

So I say Dan--from the sidelines--that you try because it will make you a better person.

You just may not realize it yet.

Sincerely, Mrs. Poland

Dan,
I figured I better way in on this one also. First I echo everything that Mr. Jackson, Dan, and Mrs. Poland have stated, except maybe I am even more qualified to respond to this than Mr. Jackson, because I have been a member of the Allegany Band for 21 years. Because of what has been already stated about the performance aspect of the activity by the those before me on this thread, let me way in with this personal insight. We are a family, a family that has a complex tree that began in 1928 that each and everyone of us in connected to. (Personally Dan I think you are going through a Sophomore moment; as a Freshman, you just do it. Sure you have pride in what you are doing, but it isn't until the season is well under way that you actually get what this is all about. Then as a second year band member you start from scratch, with a new group born into the family, and you come to the realization that this is a continual process and you are seeing in from a different (hopefully, more mature) perspective.) I feel extremely blessed that I have to opportunity to do what I do. I teach at the school I graduated from and I have been able to continue the connection to the family that I was introduced to in 1986. I met my wife in the Allegany Band. I have developed friendships that have lasted a lifetime in the Allegany Band. I have great pride in the students that I have at the honor of working with in my career that have been from the Allegany Band. I could ramble on forever. Point is there is more to this than practicing and performing and that is the reason that we all do this.
Remember: DO or DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY!!!

Mr. White

very wise words. Master Yoda gives the best advice.

I saw your post last night at about eleven. I was then told to go to bed. Since then, people with much more experience than I have replied to your post.
I'm not even sure if what I wanted to say last night will make any difference now.


"Motivation" caught my eye, and not just because it was bolded and underlined. I'm feeling--and I know that other individuals in the band are feeling--that students aren't motivated. Or at least motivated to not talk during rehearsal.
On the last 9-4, the rehearsal with Dan was awful. I think anyone there would have to agree. We can fix that, though. Let's not wait for someone to tell us we're wasting time before we decide to get serious about practice.

So, if you're feeling frustrated at times, I understand. Just keep your chin up (20 degrees above parallel) and roll your feet.

I agree somewhat with what is being said here. Motivation in the band is lacking, whether it be do to lack of drive or lack of the understanding that we're not silly lil instrumentalists with funny hats that have feathers. Like tracy said, behavior in the band on the last 9-4 was awful and most everyone in the band seemed to be barely motivated even in the least bit. I felt the same as daniel in the sense that it just doesn't feel the same. I went home thinking of how different it really was and remembering 6 years ago when i used to stand along the band field fence and watch the band rehearse essays in time and looking totally kick-butt! The talent of the current band could easily match the talent of the bands of alumni (even though we have a severe lack of schroederness), but the drive is no where near past bands. I'll admit, after sitting at 4 Scranton's and seeing the standings slowly decrease from 3rd to...9th it was really demoralizing. But it's totally up to us to decide what kind of band we're gonna be. We don't have to be a shave our heads-never talk- never breath to loud- eat sleep and breath music-band. We just gotta be the Alco band- and that's one hell of a title to fulfill. I, an intensely avid talker, choose to focus durin rehearsal from this point on and i encourage others to also! we shouldn't be able to say we don't feel like the alco band... We ARE the Alco Band!

As I remember, the band 6 years ago rehearsing "Essays In Time" had all the same issues you guys are describing. One of those students used to come home to my house, at times worrying about bad rehearsals and bad attitudes.

You guys can do everything past bands did...and more.

well then heck lets be the band who dusnt have issues!

LbPoland wrote:

You guys can do everything past bands did...and more.

I just really hope that we will.

ok i agree with pretty much everything thats been posted especially what tracy had to say and also what mrs. poland had to say cause i know that i come home from some practices and am truly upset about how badly i thought we rehearsed. as a junior i get upset when people are putting effort into the band because i have been for the past two year and i want us to be the best we can be, i get to the point that i came home on wed. night and cried for 5 hours because i feel upset with the attitudes that we have in the band, i talked to daniel for hours about this issue, because i hate the way some of our rehearsals have gone and really just in general the lack of respect that should come to upperclassmen for their hard work in the band. in a section of all girls 14 of us, i still manage to be quiet and it frustrates me when i find that other people aren't motivated enough to do the same... i really am motivated by good i want the allegany band to be this season, we are going into a new circuit that is gonna hard, we really need to push it cause i'm sure we all want to be able say that we were able to put on the possible show that we could at the end of season... i'd love to see some more of that idea during our practices

Well, Actually I brought this up with a certain guy named Chris Moore a couple of weeks before we got this whole forum thing really going. It seems that we do lack motivation. Every rehersal is seemingly not close to 100% with certain people screwing around, etc. Noone is perfect, but do realize that we do need a comeback. And to Mr. Jackson, it has never been the goal to come in first, but if we could eliminate the bad rehersal, we are CAPABLE of acheiving first in every competition, caption and tournament. that said, are the people I have spent my time with willing to put forth the effort to make the Allegany band a legend again? I certainly hope so.

well, i am here to have my say. first of all, mr. white said it today, and i agree...i am so happy everyone is taking the time to think about this! what that means for the band goes farther than exceptional musical talent or marching coordination....it means that we care. i'd also like to say that, thus far, i see A LOT of people trying really hard and making a real effort to make this band reach its potential. but here and there the drive is definitely sinking and there's only one way to fix it, and here is how....

the day before ACC's my freshman year, everyone was out practicing on some random field in scranton, PA. all of us were freezing (i couldn't feel my fingers, if i remember correctly) and we were dead tired. but what i will never forget is something that was said to us as we were all crowded around right at the very end...."You must be passionate about everything you do in life." and i'm sure everyone knows who i'm talking about, but the important thing is, he is so right. nothing matters unless you care enough to make it matter! band can be utterly pointless, or it can be the most inspiring and uplifting activity you have ever been a part of. i know from 4 years of screaming from the stands for my brother, and another 3 of marching myself that band has everything to do with what you make it, and if everyone is just crazy about wanting to be great, the results will be extraordinary. all of my dearest friends are with me in band, and yours probably are too, so whether you do it for them, for yourself, or for all the people who came before you at allegany, just be passionate about what you're doing and you will never regret it.

What everyone has said is right on the dot. When I was deciding what to say, i thought of saying something like freshmen do not realize what it is like to always finish first and then drop to ninth. I then realized that most of the freshmen show more discipline than most of the upperclassmen. I have had bad rehersals myself ( we all have), but if we self discipline ourselves than those around us will have no choice but to do the same. You are now part of this family whether you like it or not. So lets pull together campers! No matter what your instrument, gender, grade, woodwind or brass, battery or guard it takes everyone to make this work. Let not the placement at the end of the year determine how the season went, but knowing that we did the best we possibly could, and that we have become better people, and gave every bit we had to this wonderful oppurtunity. So lets show what the Allegany High School Marching band can do. Lets be the best people that we can be! Not for scores or to prove we are better than other bands (although thats a nice bonus) but for ourselves and the staff that devotes so muh time to us (which I thank all of you for, this conversation or any of this would not be possible without you all) and make ourselves proud. And by the way why do sometihng half-heartedly band is especially something you have to be committed to I know personally that band is something that I truly have heart for , it creates a feeling that is not felt about very many things. Well thanks for listening/reading.

Well, while we are on the subject of motivation and rehearsals, I think it's important to note that as members of this band, you should have some say in how we, the staff, instruct you. Is there something you'd like to see change in how I instruct, for example? Is the structure of the rehearsals to your liking? Keep in mind, however, that I am merely asking for your opinion based on my own curiosity, not in an effort to change how we rehearse. But I want to make sure that every member believes in the method in which we rehearse. It's important to me......and I believe that if you all have a supreme faith in what the staff is doing and how we are doing it, then our instructions will be that much more effective.

I honestly think that the staff has given us all they can and you have made such a large commitment that it is simply up to us. It's like Mr. White said in rehersal today, we have all the tools it is just a matter of EVERYONE applying it to themselves SELF DISCIPLINE!!

Dan, I can honestly say that during my four years with the group, I've thought some of the same questions to myself. Yet, I always think back and realize that there are so many different answers to your questions, depending on who you ask. So, with that, I'll share my thoughts...

My first year as a Camper came with more questions than most (I didn't come from Braddock, so I didn't know fully what the band was about). I wondered just what the band's goal was and where I fit into the equation. But, as the weeks of my first year went on, I began to see a sense of unity amongst one another - unity that isn't formed in one year, two years, many years for that matter...what I saw was a group of "kids" whose goal was simply to achieve great things, and strive to work their hardest in creating 8 minutes of musical movement. Ever since, I knew that my one goal was to contribute to this unity and work to achieve a common goal. Now, looking back, I can say that I as an individual, and we as a group, achieved that goal. We had staff coming from many different environments, some taking time out of their careers elsewhere, to travel and help the band achieve excellence. We had a director who only wanted to see us succeed, regardless of what a guy in a black outfit put on a piece of paper. We saw alumni who would come back to simply see how the band that they were once a part of was coming along. And, of course, we had the members of the band themselves, the centerpiece of the group - the ones who would take the band into the future. Being part of a group as close knit as Allegany is nothing to turn a head at. For me, being a part of the group, in summary, was worth it.

So, any time you may wonder about the band's motivation, or purpose, or "why we try," just remember - not many individuals have the opportunity to be part of a group like us...take advantage of your time as a part of the band, strive to succeed, and make your time worth it, and I have a feeling that when you're where I'm at 3 years down the road (or maybe even before-hand), you'll find answers to your questions.

I'm continually amazed with the level of maturity and perception that so many of our members have.

Ultimately, we try not for reward, not for placement, not for notoriety, not for validation, not for respect, not for the praise of others; we try because we desire to create art, we try because we desire to perform for the enjoyment of otheres, we try because we desire to push ourselves beyond what we believe to be our own limits, we try because we understand the power of hard work, we try because we seek out and love perfection (even knowing that perfection is unobtainable, we still try), we try because we will never let one of our own down by not giving 100% at all times, we try because we choose to live life not just observe it, we try because to not try is something we can't comprehend.

As a result of trying we often find reward, placement, noterity, validation, respect and praise, but that's not why we try.

Keep working hard, keep pushing yourself, keep leading by example, keep confidence in what you do. I've heard nothing but great things about this group and I'm very excited about the show and the season!

Keep trying!

"This, I believe"... haha. Well, there's not much else I can really add to what has been said, which is all excellent. I'm very happy that this forum has been able to bring about such discussion, and of course, we should always try to be positive, or turn our negative experiences into positive ones. There is only so much we, as a staff, can do to make your experience with the band a positive one. I harp on maturity, and the importance of discipline, and performance for a reason. It's funny because we talk about a lot of this kind of stuff in my student teaching seminars. I've been able to tell the class about some of my experiences here already. Getting back on topic.. Basically, it all boils down to how good you want to be. My favorite drum corps saying is "Practice like you want to perform." At every moment I acted like someone was watching me. What do you want to look like/sound like?

There are a lot of self-motivated people in this band, but you have to remember that it is a young band. A third of the band hasn't even attended a high school class yet! I just want you all to be strong, and to have confidence that things will be okay. But, I believe that upper classmen can take more charge in the organization; I don't mean by "jr. teching," but by regulation. For example, being responsible for your section's actions on the field (e.g talking, music memorization, having everything they need in rehearsal, letting us know when people can't be at rehearsal and why, etc.) One last thing; remember what Mr. Jackson said during that first week of sectionals about the way the Cadets and other drum corps rehearse. Many of their members are your age and younger. It's all about self-motivation. Like I said, there is only so much we can do. I hope that we can all think of solutions for our problems, but also realize that it's not as bad as you might think. I've worked with other organizations, and compared to them, you are a dream in many ways. Like Tracy said, keep your chins up, and I'll see you all in a week.

all of this should be perceived as being said by a disembodied voice (denzel washington anyone?), not mine as it would then lose any validity it might previously have held.





what is the ultimate goal of a musician when they make music? (i don't care what any of you think the answer should be, it's a vessel to finish this post so don't answer it in any future posts if you disagree) perfection. (to make art or whatever else is a given) when the general public hears a recording of a typical high profile symphony orchestra, those people sound technically and musically (though the musicality depends on preference, but again, i don't care about your opinions, it's just for the purpose of the article) perfect. why is this? musicians strive for perfection. music is not something that can demand anything less than perfection. when we go out onto the field, our goal should be to make music, thus the need for perfection in everything that affects how we give that music to the audience as just about everything that we do out there influences the overall picture.

i think that there's a problem with this mentality of "trying". there is no choice in this activity, you are either going to do it or give up and not bother wasting everyone's time. trying is a pathetic attempt at disguising indecision, and if you can't decide whether you want it all or nothing, well first of all you're insane as everyone should want it all, and secondly you've might as well quit because you'll never be able to throw yourself into the fray wholeheartedly, thus ruining any chance at perfection. we don't have the luxury of choice in this. there are too many bands that have already lost that fight. we don't have to join them.


on a side note, i'd like to extend my thanks and congratulations to the staff on the subject of motivational speeches this year. wow! they're just flying left and right this year, and they really are good! i don't think that i've heard one yet that didn't touch something inside for the remaider of the rehearsal (and sometimes beyond but that's not really the point)! now, on the other hand, there's been an increase in sad attempts from the band members themselves...i would highly recommend that you of the staff members consider starting some sort of speaking seminar. it could really go a long way in improve student made recitations. or the band members could just maybe stop their attempts which do nothing for me but piss me off at them.......that was a hint by the way. but really, i would love to see everyone in the staff speaking even more often than they are now.

i was made aware of the vagueness of my comment above of the second to last line of the last paragraph (the hint part). that part IS NOT DIRECTED AT THE PREVIOUS STUDENT POSTS ON THIS TOPIC. those i actually enjoyed reading and thought brought some very good points up. what i was referring to was exclusively comments that people made during band (usually on the field). sorry for any misuderstanding.

I have been a part of this band for 3 years and am steadily making progress into my forth year. When i was in middle school, i wasn't sure about band, i wasn't sure about the time commitment and the conformity and the regulations. BUt then i went to Scranton, and i saw not a group of immature high school kids marching around in geeky uniforms , but young men and women working together, to make somthing beautiful, straining themselves physically and mentally to create an act that was so touching words can't describe it.
I went to band camp the next summer, and was absorbed into the ranks, was inducted into this proud tradition of excellence, welcomed to strive for prefection alongside my future classmen. I begin to function as a unit , my drive not only coming from within me, but from a desire for the GROUP to achieve. Ive played on sports teams, been in scouts, and numerous scholastic compititions , but never have i found a group of people that are able to bond so completely to one another, that are able to put aside their differences to reach a common goal.
I'm not worried about this year, because i have never seen such a reaction from the band, i have never seen so many members so genuinely concerned for the band. I think mr white is right in saying that this is a good sign. It shows we have recognised our faults, and are determined to correct them and live up to the name we bear, The Allegany Marching Band.